The Most Common Fire Safety Issues During Healthcare Renovations

The webinar addresses critical fire safety issues that arise during healthcare renovations, moderated by Jennifer Crosby. Speakers Josh Brackett and Bruce Bickford emphasize the importance of compliance with NFPA 241, which is often overlooked but essential for minimizing fire damage. They discuss the necessity of maintaining standpipes and sprinkler systems, as well as the importance of fire watch protocols during construction. Real-life examples highlight the consequences of non-compliance, particularly regarding occupancy classifications and corridor requirements outlined in Chapter 43. The session concludes with a focus on innovative solutions like Stark's containment systems that meet multiple safety standards.

Full Webinar Transcript

For those who prefer text, we've included the complete webinar transcript below. Use it to quickly find topics covered in the presentation and reference important details shared by our speakers.

Welcome everyone. Thank you for joining us for today's webinar, The Most Common Fire Safety Issues During Healthcare Renovations.

My name is Jennifer Crosby with STARC Systems, and I will serve as your moderator.

A couple of housekeeping items before we begin. Today's presentation is being recorded and will be sent in a follow-up email to you. If you have any questions during the presentation, please type them into the question box in your GoToWebinar control panel. We will save time for questions at the end of the presentation.

Now let me introduce you to our speakers, Josh Brackett, System Regulatory Director and Facility Operations for Banner Health and Co founder Chief Learning Officer with Legacy FM, and Bruce Bickford, vice president of product development with STARC systems.

Now I'd like to turn things over to our first speaker to get us started. Please go ahead, Josh.

Thanks so much, Jen, and thanks everybody for, for being here. Really appreciate, this. As Jen mentioned, I am the system regulatory director for Banner Health, work in the, facilities, group and help and support design and construction and facilities operations, a big part of the, you know, transition transition to operations process.

I'm also a, I am a fire geek, code geek. A lot of you may follow me on LinkedIn.

I love codes, regulatory compliance. So that is what we're here to talk about today.

Specifically, you know, I wanted to we wanted to dig into, like, five, like, five common issues related to, construction and and fire safety, life safety issues. The five that that we're targeting today are, really the lack of knowledge and understanding around NFPA 241, which is our standard for construction alteration and dim and demolition operations. And tied directly to that in correlation is a lack of knowledge that lack of knowledge of NFPA 241 really does lead to a lack of enforcement. That doesn't but that doesn't mean that it's not a required standard. Right? So a required standard.

And we're also gonna dive into a little bit about the competing, codes and standards, like how how we have different codes and regulations, that in different jurisdictions and how that leads often to confusion and how owners can help clean, clean and clear some of that. We'll also touch on chapter forty three of NFPA one zero one. It's one of my favorite chapters. It's our building rehabilitation chapter. And then, of course, we're gonna dive into UL listed criteria and how assemblies have to meet, UL listed, specific specificities.

There we go.

So we are gonna have code references in this document. So don't worry, I won't bore you. I'm not gonna read the code to you. Hopefully, you guys will be excited from this and go read the code yourself. But we are gonna dive into, I'll summarize, we'll have some stories, things like that, and then, of course, time at the end for q and a.

So chapters eighteen and nineteen, eighteen is our new health care occupancy chapter, nineteen is existing, twenty is new ambulatory, and twenty one is existing ambulatory. All four of these chapters point us directly to, compliance with NFPA 241. It's one line in the code that is often missed, but it is a shall requirement. So let's dig into really what that looks like.

So 241, let's what is it? Right? So let's start there. What is 241, and why am I showing the two thousand nine edition?

We'll talk about that too. So 241 is our safeguard for, for protection against, fires during construction, alterations, demolition, and its goal, its purpose is to prevent or minimize fire damage during those operations. Right? One thing that's important to note is that it's not health care specific.

It is adopted by some jurisdictions, separately outside of NFPA one zero one, so you have to be cognizant and careful. Even if it's not adopted, it is a best practice. So, we're following a two thousand nine edition because NFPA one zero one two thousand twelve references the two thousand nine edition of code.

We follow the two thousand twelve edition in health care specifically, which is, you know, my background and and focus, because CMS, the Center for Medicare and Medicaid, provides, or has adopted into federal law the two thousand twelve edition of NFPA one zero one. So that's why we're referencing the two thousand nine edition.

So let's dig into some of the the specific requirements of 241. So 241, pushes us back from a hot work perspective directly to NFPA 51 b. And and that's important because in NFPA 51 b, this is where we get things such as our hot work permits and some of our fire watch requirements during hot work and where where hot work is permitted in designated areas and non permissible areas. So it's very important.

It's and it's also interesting to see, like, how one code, how our our chief code, one zero one life safety code references something which references additional information. Sometimes you have to follow that lineage to figure out the requirements.

241 also says in when when you have a means of egress, for construction, that the means of egress has to be in accordance back to NFPA one zero one, why safety code. Right? So and it says in there, only only where required means of egress are required by fire protection features, they have to be continuously maintained.

Right? Or you have to you have to implement alternative life safety measure measures, ALSMs, which if your joint commission, or your joint commission hospital or you've heard of joint commission, you've probably heard it called ILSMs, interim life safety measures. Same thing, same terminology, but it is what it means is that when we reduce the level of life safety in the building below the requirements of the life safety code in FDA one zero one, we have to assess if, alternative measures are necessary. And if so, we have to implement those measures.

Just real quickly, I wanna touch on this this picture here. This is a picture this is a picture that actually, really changed the trajectory of codes, as we know it. Also changed, is is one of the foundations of my history, and why I became a fire protection engineer. This is the, the Ash Building in New York City, still stands today, but it is the location of the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire.

And the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire, had a lot of means of egress issues, and several, a lot of people died. Ultimately, this ended up leading to the creation of the safety to life committee, which is still in existence today and ultimately turned into the life safety code in a PA one zero one. So means of egress is very, very, very important from a life safety perspective.

Yeah. The next next section that we talk about is fire watch. In in 241, it says that you have to have a fire watch, whenever you, are doing construction. And this is where, you know, I get a lot of questions on, well, can fire the fire watch guy, can they do other stuff?

Can it be in my security guard? Can it be can they have you know, because I don't wanna pay somebody just to sit and watch for fires. No. Code says fire watch shall be assigned no other duties.

This is a critical role. It's very important. I know we don't take things necessarily seriously sometimes, but it is very important. I'll give you an example here.

So in that same section, it talks about that, when you're doing tour torched roof applications, and then you have to do fire watch for two hours after. I know personally firsthand of a hospital that had a fire, occur on right after they were applying a new roof, about an hour after application of the new roof, the fire started. The fire department ended up making the hospital evacuate the building. It's a whole another conversation for another day, but the fact is is that this stuff does happen.

There's a reason that this is in the code. There's a reason that, we have to to follow it. It's not a it's not a, if it's going to happen. You have to treat it as of when it's going to.

Standpipes. I'll harp on standpipes just a little bit. The biggest thing here is that when you're building a new building, when you're building an addition, when you have standpipes in the building, the standpipes have to be maintained and ready to be used at all times. K?

If you're if not, you've got to coordinate with the fire department. The whole point of the standpipe is, especially if you don't have an active sprinkler system, this is the line of defense. Right? So the fire department has to know, be aware, of of of the construction that's going on, where the standpipes are, where they're not active, has to be very, very clearly marked and communicated.

Was just reading a case study this weekend about a building in construction caught on fire, burnt to the ground. So because, and the and standpipes would have that active standpipes would have prevented it. So this is something that happens currently too.

Okay. Now we kinda get to the crux of of, one of the one of the key things, especially for health care, temporary wall separation.

241 requires that protection is provided when you have an occupied portion of the portion of the building. Well, in health care, we have it all the time. That's all we do. Right? I mean, unless you're building a greenfield site, a new hospital, then you are doing construction, in an in adjacent to an occupied portion of the building. So there are two requirements associated with that. We'll go into that now.

So there's you can either do a one hour wall separating the the occupied portion of the building from the from the construction area, or you can do a non rated wall, but you have to follow, and you have to have an approved automatic sprinkler system. This is not an option. I see this all the time. I was walking a construction site just last week where I was like, okay.

Where's my where's our one hour barrier? Where's our one hour wall? We don't have it. Right?

So, this is this is something that is very, very critical because, we have a higher combustible load during in construction. We, have to provide that separation because it goes back to everything ties back to, of course, the means of egress. Right? When we have to evacuate, we're only evacuating a portion of the hospital.

Right? We don't we don't evacuate the whole hospital. So we use, partial evacuation strategies. And this this buys us the time, this one hour wall or the sprinkler system.

One important note that we wanted to bring up here is that construction tarps are not appropriate barriers. I know that this is in the annex. I know it's a shall not should. Right?

But or it's a should not shall. Let me say that the right way. It's a should not shall. However, it should it should be a shall.

Boy, say that ten times fast. So the reason for that is, the construction tarps, not only from a fire protection perspective, don't meet the, fire the fire, the flame spread rating index or the smoke development index. They also are not appropriate ICRA barriers.

So from an infection prevention side. So, very, very critical. I I hate personally, do not like construction tarps at all. Not a proponent.

Okay. So let's look at, a few examples here for the sprinkler system side. So one thing that's off that's also often missed is that you can't just remove the ceiling and just leave the sprinklers in place. You have to you have to bring that sprinkler system, if it's an existing system, up to NFPA thirteen in order for it to be an approved, as we just saw on the previous side, an approved sprinkler, sprinkler system.

So, let's look at actually these pictures. There's some sprinklers in these pictures, and there's a few important things here to know. What this really means, okay, this is there's a couple of different options. Here you'll see obstructed construction, k, which is which is where you actually have structural members, below the deck, but there's also unobstructed construction.

So if you have unobstructed construction, your sprinkler heads have to be within twelve inches of the deck and, throughout the entire coverage area. The obstructed construction, then you have to be six inches below structural members with a max of twenty two inches below the deck. So you've got to bring the sprinkler system up to code is really what I'm saying. And you've gotta look at some structural members are, deeper than twenty two inches, which means that you now have bathes in place and you've got to take the put put a line between the two and take it up to, within twelve inches of the deck.

So there are implications here.

I it's all it's often though you I mean, you've gotta look at the each project. This is the big thing. Look at each project and determine what is the best thing for the patient, what's the best thing for the hospital, What is the easiest thing? Is it easier to take a firewall and extend it from from floor to deck? Sometimes that's very hard in existing construction. Sometimes it's easier to do a sprinkler system. But take the time and do the research and figure out for each project which what makes the most sense.

So I did say I I told you I was gonna harp a little bit on on standpipes, and, and a big part of this is just a lot of, coordination needs to go needs to be performed with the fire department, the local fire department. We are altering their knowledge of the building. They are there to respond in the event of a fire. It's very, very critical.

So, when when you when you are when your building has standpipes, make sure that they are always ready for department use. And then, of course, like I said, the sprinkler system has to remain in service. This is even during demolition, talking about demolition now, even during the demolition side, your sprinkler system has to remain in service until the as long as there's a condition requiring it. That condition is the one hour barrier, the one hour, the one hour fire barrier.

It has to be an active sprinkler system, and you've got you may have to do phases. That's very important. You may have to say, okay. We'll do a one hour right now, and then we'll phase phase the sprinklers in, and then remove the one hour barrier or vice versa.

So, include that in the phasing process.

One other thing, I just wanna make note of this. You know, there's been a lot of substantial changes. The the committee's put a lot of care into this. I know a few of the committee members, into the newer editions of NFPA 241. Although it's not adopted by, CNS yet, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't consider including aspects of it in your, in your project.

As owners, we can include best practices, and exceed the code. The codes are always in the scope of every single code. It says this is the minimum requirement.

The minimum requirement does not necessarily mean that that's the best thing for this project, for the hospital, for the patients. So look at that. I implore you. Please please look at the newer additions and incorporate what your minimum requirements are going to be.

So and we go back to enforcement. And so this picture is, is a picture I took recently actually at the ASHU PVC this year, down in New Orleans, a blocked exit. Sometimes we struggle to get the basic enforcements down. Right?

This is a this is baseline here. So, and that doesn't mean that that it's not required. That doesn't mean that it's gonna stand up in court if it ever does get to that point. So please make sure that you are enforcing it as well.

It doesn't have to be just because the fire marshal says it's okay does not make it the right thing to do. I've got an example there. I actually had a smoke evacuation system where and I still have the letter to this day where the fire marshal signed off that I can remove the beam detectors, and those were the only things that activated that smoke evacuation system in this atrium. Clearly not construction related, but the fire marshal told me it was okay.

That doesn't make it that that that doesn't make it okay, though.

Also, I love to hear, well, NFPA one zero one doesn't apply here. We follow IBC. Again, I I follow NFPA one zero one two thousand twelve because up to eighty percent of my funding comes from the federal government for Medicare Medicaid reimbursement. So it's kind of a big deal to me. Right? So, and then, of course, we've all heard we've always done it this way.

Let's look real quickly at the chapter forty three rehabilitation.

This is actually I've I've there are hour long presentations on chapter forty three alone. There's a great one out there actually by Jim Peterkin. I recommend you guys go go look it up.

And there are, six six different classifications of be building rehabilitation. We're not gonna get into each one of them, but I do wanna just point out that these have implications. Chapter forty three tells you when you have to meet the the any of the new chapters, so chapter eighteen for health care. Right? It tells you if you have to bring an existing building or an existing system up to the new occupancy requirements or if you are permitted to to remain with the existing occupancy requirements. A great example of this is number five, change of user occupancy classification. I just sent out an email on that this morning, and you'll see a picture here of of OR lights.

ORs are a great example. In older hospitals, we convert, the the worst OR, oftentimes to a storage room because we didn't have the storage that we needed. Well, because ORs are larger than two hundred fifty square feet, there's a there's a specific section in chapter forty three that says in health care occupancies where you exceed the two hundred fifty square feet, you have to bring it up to the new, the new chapter new occupancy chapter requirements. What that means is for the new occupancy chapter in hazardous areas, it has to be sprinklered and you have to have a one hour barrier surrounding the room.

Right? So it's a very common citation, by accrediting organizations, and, it's it's something that if you're referencing chapter forty three, then you'll catch it. But it is missed time and time again across the nation. So, again, please go read chapter forty three and and do some more research.

I've got a few few, things we'll talk about here, from a definition perspective just to to level set.

One thing and I tie this back this section here really back to to chapter four, which is a fundamental, chapter. It's a general requirements chapter.

So we talk up here about, that when you when you have an existing building that exceeds the requirements of new occupancy chapter construction, that you can bring that down to what the new, the new chapter requires. Okay? So let's just say, just an example, that you have a two hour wall that was there for whatever reason built in seventies, and the new occupancy chapter says that only a one hour wall is required, then you can derate that wall from two hours to one hour.

Existing so this is where we tie back to that chapter four, and I I am gonna read this exactly. So existing life safety features that exceed the requirements for new buildings shall be permitted to be decreased to those required by new buildings. It's exactly what we just talked about. You can take existing features that exceed and bring them to the new building requirements.

An example of this real quickly is, is corridors, in in in prior to nineteen ninety one, corridors in health care had to be, one hour rated. After that, they only had to resist the passage of smoke. Well, if you haven't modified, that building or you haven't changed the life safety drawings, you are permitted to do that so long as you are protected throughout with automatic sprinkler systems in accordance with NFPA thirteen.

The opposite of this is also true. Existing life safety features that do not meet the requirements of new buildings but exceed the requirements of the existing cannot be further diminished. K. So what we're saying here is that you can't you cannot decrease the level of life safety. If you don't meet the new occupancy chapter life safety requirements, you but you exceed the existing, you cannot decrease that any further. It's gotta stay where it's at. And an example of this is, if a if a, if a hospital has a six foot wide corridor, in it currently in an existing hospital, then you don't have you cannot reduce that down any further.

Opposite though, if it it has a ten foot wide corridor, then you can reduce it to eight feet because eight feet is what the new occupancy chapter requires. So, very, very important very important example. Even though existing says that you can go less than six feet, it doesn't mean that you can reduce it down any further than what it is because it was built at six feet.

Alright. Last last last topic here. I just wanna hit on this real quickly.

UL listed assemblies are critical. Understand what the assembly means. You how UL tests assemblies. They test everything together.

So here is an example. You know, we've got several several pictures here as examples, but it has very specific installation requirements. It has, how how, the drywall so let's just use a two hour wall, for example. Two layers of of sheetrock on each side, and they have to, they have to they cannot overlap.

The seams cannot overlap. The screws have to be screwed into a certain depth, has to be specific. So one great example here is I was working in an existing hospital built in the seventies, not fully, sprinklered.

So I actually required a two hour barrier to be built between, occupied area and a construction area. And the, we they the contractor had, somebody building the two hour wall on one side and somebody building the two hour wall on the opposite side, and they were building two different two hour walls. Both were approved UL listed assemblies if built built in, in uniformity. However, because they were building it different, it hadn't ever been tested that way.

There was no proof that that was actually a true a two hour barrier anymore. So, it's very important that you follow the installation requirements associated with UL listed assemblage. So I know we went through a lot. You guys will have access to this recording.

I'd like to turn it over to Bruce, to provide some really key information.

Well, hey, Josh. Thanks very much. That was a very detailed presentation and, very informative, so I really appreciate that.

Well, everybody, thanks for joining today. I'm gonna spend a few minutes, just going through what how STARC has solved your containment problems when faced with fire and building code requirements.

STARC was founded by a healthcare contractor who felt there had to be a better way to do containment.

And our name is an acronym which defines that: Simple, Telescopic, Airtight, Reusable Containment.

And since our founding, we've been a leader in temporary modular containment, and we're the only company that offers multiple containment solutions to fit your project needs. We're relied on by top contractors in health care facilities around the country in all fifty states and in some foreign countries as well.

And really, for since day one, customers have been asking us for a one hour rated solution, and that's what we come up with today.

Many of our customers are large national contractors and major medical systems, and they've all been expressing the need for a fire rated system that reduce their cost and project times to build these rated assemblies.

The key challenges for us was to develop a truly reusable modular design that met all of the other features and capabilities that we're known for, like the lift and drop connections, the durability, ICRA compliance, great appearance, and the like.

And so to reach this goal, we spent a ton of time and money on developing a core technology that would meet the thermal and mechanical performance requirements and have done extensive fire testing in the process to get there.

What we've come up with is a product that offers unmatched benefits when compared to traditional drywall. It's up to four times faster to install. That means no taping, mudding, sanding or painting, and less coordinating with the various trades. Plus it can be installed or removed during normal business hours.

It has superior noise blocking, with an STC rating of forty, which means less disruption for patients, visitors, and staff.

It's exceptionally stable and looks and feels like a real wall when it's installed.

It's extremely durable and can be used job after job. In fact, a lot of our customers use our panel systems hundreds of times.

Because it's reusable and so durable, it typically pays for itself after just three to five uses and then generates ongoing cost savings or revenue for the contractor.

And finally, it looks great. It's part of what we do, and it blends into the existing health care environment while hiding the disruption of renovation.

The all of our systems exceed ICRA, and this wall specifically meets class five as well as the EASTME84.

So let's take a look and see how the system works.

It's, the system has been optimized to work with soffit or ceiling heights from eight feet to ten feet. And we start with a perimeter telescoping floor, wall and ceiling track system, that connects to the rated walls or ceilings or soffits.

These telescoping tracks have been engineered for maximum flexibility by both telescoping and incorporating our novel snip cut system, which divides the track sections into shorter reusable lengths.

And by design, the tracks allow up to six inches of gap in both width and height.

So overall, we have an easy system to adapt to any floor plan or ceiling soffit height.

Once the tracks are in place, the modular reusable panels float inside those tracks and use our lift and drop connection to go left and right.

The panels come in six, twelve, and twenty four inch widths for size flexibility.

We also have two corners, angles, ninety and one thirty five with the same lift and drop connection.

Our door module then connects as well with a lift and drop, and it's rated one hour, with a three six six eight door. It has a four way pivot, so we can go left, right, in or out.

And finally, if you're for any negative air space, which is what we're famous for, we have air discharge and monitoring panels as well for the system. So you can create negative air spaces and measure that amount of negative pressure.

Let's take a quick look and see, how this goes.

So the the basic system, again, we'll start with, just marking out the floors.

I'm sorry. First, we'll unpack. That's good. We'll unpack the walls, and and then, we'll mark out the floors, walls, and ceiling with a laser, center lines. We'll start mounting the ceiling base angle in place.

And then on the floor reflecting below that, the the base tracks, and you can see those extensions snapping into place.

And then finally, the wall track, joins the ceiling track and the floor track.

Again, any of our track sections can be snip cut, so we cut the edge with tin snips and flex and snap them apart.

Then the panels get placed. Again, lift and drop very simply. We use vacuum handles to move them around. And then the doors, door module can be placed and then the final accessories.

To insulate around the panels against the wall or up the top, we use fire block pillows, which are our product. And then you put the covers on on the tracks, and that's it. So really straightforward process to, build that assembly.

Very fast and with no training required.

Here's a couple of examples of some assemblies.

Both are constructed to a soffit and were assembled in a matter of hours with a small crew without prior training.

These walls are put up during normal hours, so don't require overtime or off shift work to install or move. And no secondary containment was need for the installation as you would, of course, need with, drywall.

You can also use our LiteBarrier and RealWall panels in conjunction with Fireblock if you want to build anterooms or additional isolation isolation, that doesn't require the one hour fire barrier rating. So again, our systems all work together.

For Fireblock, we've worked closely with Intertek for testing and our listings, against towards the, principle E119 and e84 class a certifications.

And we have a separate certification for the UL ten c one hour rated door frame. And then we use a commercial one hour door to go with that.

We've also been working closely with regulators in Kansas and California to gain their approvals.

California's health care regulatory body, known as HCAI, or used to be OSHPD, has approved our system for both a seismic and fire life safety standpoint.

As well, the California State Fire Marshal has now recognized our system and approved it with a listing in their build in their building materials index.

California regulators are extremely tough, and, we've worked very hard to satisfy them that Fireblock Wall meets all of their requirements.

In return, they're very excited, to see that our system being adopted widely within the state to simplify and, really really bring FireCode compliance, into more situations.

So for health care settings, FireblockWalll checks all the boxes in meeting NFPA one zero one and therefore 241, IBC, NFPA, and ICRA standards in creating the one hour FHIR barrier wall system.

And just to show you, typically to meet NFPA 241 standards or certainly the E119 standard, a rated firewall must be constructed up against an equivalent one hour rated assembly, which is typically, in this case, a hard soffit, from floor to the deck above.

Nominally, to meet this requirement with our system, the customer would build this soffit down from the deck to the ceiling plane.

Then our system is installed under the hard soffit, to create the fire rated assembly.

Alternatively, a supported shaft wall lid assembly can be constructed under the ceiling from the rated wall out and our system could be installed underneath that lid.

Next.

In many jurisdictions, you know, we've heard about this and everybody's does things a little differently as Josh alluded to. You know, in certain IHJs or code officials may say they will allow, a fire partition separation without going to the deck.

And so again, based on customer input and and requests from customers, we've specifically designed this system to mount to, an acoustical tile grid, and be reinforced back to the structure with kickers or braces, to carry the loads.

In these cases, FireblockWall acts as a fire partition and the approval may require, a smoke barrier above, you know, with plastic film, and or sprinkler coverage, for, as Josh mentioned, and to be, above the ceiling, to protect the space.

These are all really handled on a case by case basis and up to the ILSM plan or ALSM plan, the fire life safety officer, a code official, or other AHA to really consider what options are permissible.

And a lot is really determined by what kind of spaces are being protected.

An equipment storage closet, as he mentioned, will require a one hour fire barrier, whereas the change of use space to something less hazardous may allow a partition to be used. So it's really up to your AHA to determine what can be done. But again, our system is flexible and can be used in this way.

So again, as Josh cited, talking about the sprinkler coverage.

You know, what we can do is put up a non rated wall like in this example. Our sprinkler coverage would be provided on both sides of a RealWall installation or one of our flagship products by turning up the heads or adding heads up against the deck in the construction area.

These RealWall panels are non rated, but they're non combustible with the benefits having E84 performance, dustless installation, they're great looking, sound attenuating, and none of the maintenance associated with plastic sheeting.

And we've learned, the holy grail in temporary containment, you know, when we're out talking to customers, is the fact to stay below the ceiling while providing that one hour rated barrier.

So we've developed a system, which is really our number one request, which is to put a cap on our walls, on our FireblockWalls, allowing fast, dustless, and quiet creation of a fire containment along a rated wall.

When you add a door and negative air capability, these walls can serve as a rated anteroom or working space, certainly so that you can penetrate the adjacent wall, during the process.

With the speed these assemblies can be installed and removed, you can save weeks of time in your phasing plans, work or work during normal hours in a busy facility with one trade, and have no demolition waste from the containment. So there's a lot of benefits.

We expect to be delivering this product in, this year in early q four in volume.

So I hope that we've showed you how we can enhance your ability to be more compliant with fire and life safety codes while saving money and time on your renovation projects.

The STARC family of wall systems all work together, and we can easily mix and match up our three product lines for the most cost effective and capable containment solutions available today.

So I will now turn this over to Jen.

Thank you, Josh and Bruce. So we'll go ahead and take some time for questions now. Just a reminder, please be sure to type your questions into the question box in your control panel.

And it does look like we've had a number of questions that have come in.

So let's see. There's Josh, Bruce.

So, Josh, first question is for you.

Since you were referencing the two thousand nine edition of NFPA 241, would we also follow the older edition of NFPA 51 b?

So yes. I believe, I can't I don't think that NFPA one zero one, has a direct reference to NFPA 51 b. I literally have it pulled up right now, so let's check. It does not. So, yes, you do follow you would have to follow the, addition referenced in NFPA 241.

Great. Another question for you, Josh. Regarding fire watch, is the requirement that fire watch shall have no other duties specific only to hot hot work, or does it apply to systems out of service as well?

It applies to systems out of service as well.

K.

Okay. This is a long one. Oh.

Tina, I'm gonna try to do your question justice. Can you please explain initiates a fire watch with a fire alarm system is out of service more than four out of twenty four hours or when sprinkler system is out of service more than ten hours in a twenty four hour period?

Is fire watch required for planned unplanned if the parent is less than the the four hours fire alarm or ten hour sprinkler.

Oh, okay. I'm following. I I understand.

So, no, if you are under the four hours or the ten hours, and your systems are out of service, either fire alarm for four hours, sprinkler for ten hours, then, no, a fire watch is not required. However, it is something that, should be still considered depending on what you are doing.

So example, like hot work, then, yes, it would be required.

So, it depends on what you're doing, and you also need to have a plan in place, in case you are doing work, let's say, on the sprinkler system. They say it's only gonna take two hours. It never takes only two hours.

So make sure that you have a contingency plan in place for that.

Great. Thanks, Tina. Tina said good job, so I did her question justice. Thank you, Tina.

So the answer, Tina? You can reply.

Tina, just confirm if if Josh has answered that for you or if, yes. She you answered it.

Josh, does NFPA 241 require require you to relocate sprinklers when the ceiling tiles have been removed as part of the construction? Will sprinklers be able to collect enough heat to activate if the ceiling tiles have been removed?

You have to that's where we go back to. You have to bring the sprinkler system up to NFPA thirteen requirements, which is where we were talking about. It has to be within so many inches of the deck or the, beams or pockets of of those structural members.

So it it does require that you move the sprinkler heads, up to the deck. If you leave them down at the bottom where the where the ceiling was, let's say it's a drop ceiling, acoustical tile ceiling, if you leave it down there where it was, no. You will not be in compliance with thirteen and you will have to have a one hour wall.

Great. Bruce, a couple questions for you. Can I use the cap to make a four foot deep space?

Yeah. Not currently. And we did that mainly, because of customer input. Again, trying to maintain a six foot passageway in the halls, and it's a principal use that we've heard of, is to, you know, go down the hallway with a long run of wall. So we've kept that panel width right now at two feet deep, so it could be as long as you need to go down, but right now it's the initial product will only allow a two foot depth.

Great. And can your system be installed to the deck?

We cannot.

Again, we're we're limited to a ten foot height, so obviously in a lot of situations, not only is the deck farther than that, but of course, we have all the stuff that's above the ceiling. So going through all the penetrations that be necessary would be really complicated with our system. So it's, simply, easier just to stay below a soffit and have, that soffit construction, be above in the, above the ceiling.

Another question for you, Bruce. Can I build a shaft wall lid and put your walls underneath?

Yes.

We're working with our engineers, to come up with a system that would allow, until our CAP product comes out, a means of building a, UL two sixty three shaft wall lid, that's self supporting, and then our wall system would conventionally install underneath it. And part of the system design there would be that this whole system would be prefabricated and not have to be built on-site, but it could be prefabricated and carried in and assembled as a unit.

Great. Couple more questions for you, Josh. What do you personally like to see on active construction projects?

Oh, that's a good one. So I I personally like that you're talking to a fire protection engineer. Right? Yeah.

I say, personally, if we can have sprinklers, do sprinklers, because a sprinkler system is built to contain that, especially if I'm looking in health care and I've got occupants there, that are adjacent to it, then I really try to do, active sprinkler systems. I also really even though we didn't talk about fire alarm, it it's, yeah, I hear a lot of the time it's a cop out of, well, we're just gonna have, false alarms of smoke detectors and things like that. It's not the case. It can be managed correctly.

It can be managed properly to prevent false alarms, from from smoke detectors. So smoke remember smoke detectors, heat detectors are your initial immediate, first line of defense from a fire protection perspective. When you're talking the entire ecosystem of life safety. That smoke detector or heat detector is the very first line of defense, and it can it can be managed.

So that's that's very important. I I always think about not, like, when we have forty forty construction workers there on the project. I think about when we're on third shift and I have one plant operator there, and that's it. Right?

So, I want that first line of defense and I want that that security.

But, I have like I said, I've I've required on construction projects just depending, on what it is above and beyond the code, for example, that two hour wall I was talking about. So, it just depends on the application, but that's kinda I could probably talk about that for a whole hour.

Do you another question is coming. Do do sprinkler heads need turned up if ceiling tiles are out for less than ten hours?

Ceiling tiles are out for no. No. Because your system is not impaired for more than ten hour period.

Paul, feel free to follow-up if if if that was not asked correctly. We can clarify.

Another question for you, Josh.

I noticed you didn't discuss fire alarm systems in construction areas. What are your thoughts, and do you have any recommendations?

Oh, yeah. So that's what we were just talking about. Yes. So, I absolutely do think that fire alarm systems should remain active during construction projects. And I know that's, not a popular opinion, but I've just seen I have personally been a part, four fires in hospitals.

So believe it or not, they happen. You just don't hear about them. So they do still happen.

Never has anybody died, never has anybody been been injured, thankfully, luckily, but they do occur.

So that's something one of them did occur, in a construction project. So, it's something that happens, and, again, I want that first line of defense.

I want to be notified, as quickly as possible because that is the the the time is the fastest and easiest way to mitigate the spread of fire and smoke throughout the building. I always think about the smoke more than I think about the fire because more than eighty percent of people that are in fires die from smoke inhalation and, asphyxiation and not actual fire heat flames.

And it's interesting to that because a question just came in, do sprinkler heads provide limiting for smoke spread?

No. So yes and no. I mean, it, mitigates the spread of the fire. Right? So and and once you do that, then, you are limiting the the smoke.

However, it's not it that's not its intent. That's not what it that's not what it does. Its job actually, sprinkler systems aren't designed to extinguish fires either. If you actually go to NFPA thirteen, it talks about containing.

It's about containing the fire and preventing the spread of the fire. They are not almost always, almost every single time, it's going to extinguish the fire, but that's not its its job.

And I have one one final question, that has come in and that's, does adding a one hour wall or having a compliant sprinkler sprinkler system cost more and and what if the owner doesn't wanna pay that extra cost?

Gosh. Yes. So, yes. It does. It does cost money.

And it becomes very difficult, right, when you're when you're dealing with owners that don't necessarily either don't understand the code or that are on that, it's not gonna happen to me train. Right? So, and it's very easy for us to forget, that things do happen. Nobody ever thought the triangle shirtwaist fire or the Coconut Grove fire or all these other fires. Right? I mean, the Notre Dame fire were going to happen, but they do happen.

And when they do, then there is legal prosecution, involved with those. Right? So, and it does come back, a lot of times to owners as well for either knowing or, or, documenting it. So what I would recommend from a contractor perspective is if the owner will not do it, then document it, and tell them it it's a requirement.

I'm you know, I'm sorry. This is a requirement. I document it, and I cover yourself.

And I would say to that owner, I don't I mean, I'll reserve what I would say to that owner.

And I did have one final question come in. Tina, you're gonna wrap it up for us.

Josh, during construction, your opinion, if I have an existing FAA system but remove ten smoke detectors but replace with ten heat detectors, are the ten heats considered a temporary system?

Yeah. So oh, gosh. Is it a temporary system?

No. If it's tied to your existing fire alarm system, I would say no, because you're it it you are permitted in NFPA seventy two to use heat detectors in lieu of smoke detectors where, the environment is not suitable for smoke detectors. So what I would do is document that it would be significant dust, and that you are using the option to use heat detectors in lieu of smokes. However, I would also caution you on that, because, like I said, smoke detectors can, can can be managed properly in construction environments by covering them up during the day when you do have people there and vacuuming, dusting them off before you put them back in service again.

So that's something. And then also understand how heat detectors work. If you do install heat detectors, please install combination fixed temperature heat detectors with rate of rise. So rate of rise means that, over a certain amount of time, if the temperature rises above, a certain number of degrees within that period, typically about fifteen degrees within a five minute period, then it will activate.

So it's a more proactive approach, using a a combination fixed temp heater, rate of rise heat detector.

Wonderful. Well, thanks everyone for submitting so many great questions. I'd like to give a big thank you again to our speakers, Josh and Bruce. A recording from today's webinar will be available soon. Thank you again everyone for joining us today. We appreciate you being here, and we hope you have a great day.

Thanks, everybody.

Thank you.