STARC Systems

In a recent webinar, experts discussed the evolution of temporary containment solutions, highlighting the limitations of early methods like drywall and plastic sheeting. STARC, a company founded over a decade ago, has revolutionized this field with its innovative, reusable containment systems designed for efficiency and patient protection. Their products not only reduce waste and labor but also meet high safety standards, ensuring minimal disruption during installation. The discussion included positive testimonials from users in healthcare, emphasizing the ease of use and aesthetic appeal of STARC panels. The session concluded with a Q&A, encouraging audience engagement and showcasing STARC's commitment to customer satisfaction.

Full Webinar Transcript

For those who prefer text, we've included the complete webinar transcript below. Use it to quickly find topics covered in the presentation and reference important details shared by our speakers.

Thank you for joining today's webinar, flawed to flawless, the competitive edge that's driving better project outcomes.

Containing dust, debris and noise on job sites calls for temporary walls, but early solutions like drywall, plastic sheeting, and rigid barriers each presented their own set of limitations.

In this webinar, our panel of experts will take you through a quick review of these early solutions to uncover their flaws and demonstrate how today's most innovative systems are setting new standards for profitability, customer experience, job site safety, and sustainability.

I'm John Farrell, senior content manager for STARC, and I'll be moderating today's event.

Our guests today are Chris McKenzie, VP of strategic partners at STARC, Bruce Bickford, VP of product development at STARC, and Bob Romano, senior superintendent at Nelson HPS.

Chris, why don't you kick things off?

Thank you, John.

By the way, on behalf of STARC, I'd like to welcome Bob as our customer guest today.

Welcome, Bob. Thanks for joining us.

Thank you very much. Thank you, Chris. Next slide.

So what I'd like to be able to do at first, when we started this company about ten years ago with, Bruce and Tim, seriously, there weren't a whole lot of options associated with temporary containment with the exceptions of a few of the past, features I'm gonna discuss. Next slide, please.

First and foremost, and most tried and true and still pretty prominent today, is the utilization of drywall.

For those of you who do use drywall, first and foremost, you know it takes an awful lot of time. You might take a couple days to put up a hundred feet or so. But beyond that, it's obviously dirty, creates a lot of dust and debris in the area. In fact, many times, contractors have to build containment in order to build containment to alleviate the opportunity for any dust, debris, or even noise emanating down a hallway. It's single use. It gets thrown away. And as a result of that, it adds to our waste.

Not a very sustainable methodology of building.

Clearly, you need highly skilled folks to be able to, erect drywall.

And, of course, as we all learned over the past COVID years, supply chain pricing fluctuations make it very difficult to predict that total cost of the project or the job. Next slide, please.

And then another alternative, of course, was plastic sheeting, zippered walls and corrugated plastic. Clearly, unattractive, they cause leaks, they don't hold up to negative pressure very well, and certainly there is no sound attenuation whatsoever. So in reality, what's going on behind the curtain is visible for everyone walking by and can be very disruptive to any patients in recovery. Next slide, please.

Shortly after that came early on a a early heart barrier made primarily made out of polycarbonate.

The problem with those is they didn't necessarily seal beautifully together.

Sometimes they had to be taped in order to supplement the negative pressure capability.

Not very durable. You'd only get a couple of uses out of them. And then like I said, many cases, infection preventers preventionists would require taping, while erect. Next slide, please.

So certainly about ten years ago, Start came on into the industry, in the marketplace, and we we saw a tremendous opportunity to advance this capability and this technology. Go ahead.

First and foremost, using the three primary pillars of STARC. First and foremost, as as Bruce and Tim began to develop and create the system, what came upon first was the overall experience of the passersby. What does the area look like? And their intent when they created STARC was to create an environment whereby it looked like real walls.

And as a result, you did not know there was any restoration or renovation going on behind those walls. The second challenge, of course, for everyone was profitability. Contractors, as most people know, work on very tight margins. And the reuse of our product enables significant increase in overall profitability without the need to go buy new drywall or sheetrock.

And, of course, our panels will last over fifty times, and as a result, increased profitability with each use. Clearly, the primary focus here is patient protection.

Infection control risk assessment is is there for a reason, and any dust, and debris emanating down the hallway can be very, very hazardous to any patients with a compromised immune system. As a result, clearly protection and negative pressure capabilities and good seals were were paying them out to the development of STARC. And last but not least, planet friendly.

Clearly, a hundred using a hundred feet of our product five times will save you four tons of drywall waste. So simply pretty simple solution as it relates to overall sustainability.

Next slide, please.

So what do you look for when you are trying to determine what drywall I'm sorry. What temporary containment to use? Go ahead.

First and foremost, is this gonna be a temporary or, or is this gonna be a finished wall? If it's temporary, obviously, you wanna take a hard look at the various choices that you have out there. You want high quality. You want durability. You want great looks.

And another concern is ease of installation, and that'll have a dramatic impact, especially if there are multiple phases and you have to take down and reinstall many, many phases throughout the project. Go ahead. Hey, John.

The other question, is this a simple dust barrier, low occupancy, or do we have high level infection control needs where sound attenuation is key? Some other components and and variables in there include sensitive patients or occupants.

Is there sensitive equipment like a data center or a lab where dust and debris can contaminate those, functionality?

Immobile occupants, obviously, and traffic flow. So all these have to come into play when you are trying to decide what type of temporary containment to use. Go ahead.

And are there any unique aspects? And what I mean by that, are there any tricky stairs, elevators, spiral staircases, unique configurations in the hallway? The most, desirable temporary containment in that particular situation, as well as ceiling height, has to do with the multiple choices that you have out there and will be a great determinant as to what type of product you use. Go ahead, John.

Fortunately, at STARC, we offer four different manufacturer types of product to accommodate all the variabilities that you can run into. Starting with our flagship product, the RealWALL, white paint aluminum front, galvanized skin on the back with a sound attenuating foam core in the middle. LiteBarrier, which is its sister product, is a single skin FRP product, a little more economical, lighter in weight, no sound attenuation, but the same simplicity of installation.

Of course, most people on this call know that, STARCe is the only manufacturer of the one hour rated temporary wall, And then our latest addition, enabling you to go thirty two feet high, of course, is our StackBarrier.

Go ahead.

So for the next phase, I'm welcome I'm I'm pleased to welcome one of the cofounders and inventors of STARC, mister Bruce Bigford. Bruce? Thanks, Chris. Appreciate it.

So, STARC Systems was founded on the idea of creating a simple, safe, and durable product, that would accelerate the phasing of projects, like Chris talked about, while enhancing the life safety of the facility under renovation.

STARC, in fact, is an acronym which spells out our goals, Simple, Telescopic, Airtight, Reusable Containment.

Next.

And thinking about simplicity, a fundamental feature of all our products is the two piece telescoping design which installs allows the installer to build a containment to any typical ceiling height quickly.

We've also patent a lift and drop connection between panels and modules creating a structural connection, that's really easy to use, to connect panels without any loose brackets or hardware, while creating an airtight gap or airtight seal between And we designed everything around the use of a simple single tool, so that one tool does ninety five percent of everything you need to do when you're putting up our system with all the panels and walls and doors and everything else. You wanna run that video?

So here's an example of, how these panels go up. First, you know, we see that what we call the front side and the back side. The back side is, galvanized steel for durability.

And then, we have a this inner tongue and groove track system with, with our slots and pins to be able to connect the the panels. We have height locks are built in integral, so they don't stick out. No external hardware. And there you can see that wrench, being used to, tighten the height lock.

Universal grid clips at the ceiling to attach the, and anchor the the panels to the grid.

And then there's that simple lift and drop, raise the panel up, engage the height locks, add another grid clip, and off you go. So these these systems could be installed as fast as you can literally as fast as you can take them off the cart.

Next.

You know, we we built everything as as durable as as we could, again, with all the hazards and conditions of demolition and construction.

It requires strong walls, to withstand impact, falling materials, or people or or workers crashing into them, you know, without causing failures or the walls to come down.

We extensively test all panels, to ensure they're strong and durable.

Go ahead and run this.

Certainly, enough to withstand the abuse and and still be functional for years of of reuse.

In this case, you know, dropping these CMU blocks on and, don't get any penetration and, you know, they just bounce right off. So next.

We talk about durability, and and longevity.

STARC panels, the doors, and accessories are all engineered for hundreds of cycles over many years of service.

More than half our customers report using these panels up to fifty times.

It's creating a revenue stream as they continue to charge for conventional methods, while benefiting from the depreciation and tax advantages of these equipment purchased.

Our reusable containment systems, reduce labor requirements, both in man hours and a class of labor.

Typically, laborers will install our panels, very quickly and often will with very minimal training, that we give them.

Next.

So, yeah, again, fundamental to our brand and to our our initial, product development, we really were concerned about dust control, you know, fire safety, stability, noise blocking. You know, for and we did this all initially for critical health care environments. Since then, have expanded into a lot of other areas, where people, see value in our wall systems. But, you know, so dustless containment, always clean and cleanable, to mobilize, to install, to remove, easy to vacuum up and wipe clean, during final cleaning on this on the site.

All panels are, certified to the highest code standards for minimal smoke and flame spread. That's the ASTM e eighty four class a, which is typically required for, interior partitions in occupied spaces.

Rugged structural panels, designed with integral attachment tracks, to provide for bracing and sealing attachments. We use what we call a three sixty attachment, around the perimeter of the of the panels. You can attach bracing and and whatnot everywhere.

Our panel construction materials provide sound attenuation of fifty percent or more, reducing the disruption of the occupied spaces.

And and just the, you know, the the nominal structural integrity and door hardware options, we'll talk about that more in a minute, Provide physical security compliance and assurance that the spaces are all protected.

Next.

So talking more about, you know, infection control, our, you know, our founder, is a third generation construction professional working mostly in health care renovation.

So ICRA compliance and a focus on dust and infection control was a really a prime design consideration when creating our first product, RealWALL.

But all of our modules have been engineered, with these requirements, you know, making them ideal for, you know, health care, clean manufacturing, research labs, and data centers.

All of our wall modules and, maintain negative air pressure and provide the means to exhaust the filtered air, the clean air, while in while monitoring the negative air pressure levels.

And we routinely test our systems and demonstrate pressure levels five to ten times, the requirements established by ASHRAE, and ICRA.

In regards with fire safety, again, a big topic, for everything we do, and and we really try to distinguish ourselves from everyone else, through our testing and our certification standards.

We're all all of our products are certified and listed, through InterTech, to these test standards, enabling you to create code compliance spaces.

This listing process involves extensive testing, both in the lab, and internally, followed up by manufacturing audits to ensure ongoing compliance.

We're different from our competitors in that our wall modules are certified and listed as complete assembled product.

What that means is our competition just pulls out, component material data sheets and say that they passed the test standards.

But that's not really how it works.

A, they never test the finished product, and, b, we know from our testing of their product, that they in fact fail, in many cases, against these test standards. So, you know, it's what you can and it just doesn't when you put two things together, that are both listed, that doesn't make, an assembly that's also listed because it will often fail the test.

You could verify this, our both our products and our competitors by looking for the certification label on the product. You've all seen the UL or ETL labels on, say, a power strip or your toaster or something like that.

And that's the proof of compliance with these international test standards. So we do that.

In terms of stability, our systems are designed and tested around structure and stability to ensure that our wall systems will be strong.

They're protecting occupants, and and they won't fall down when somebody crashes into them, or from, say, wind loading or, you know, something else that's going on in the in the environment.

The bracing options give you flexibility to add support to your walls, to allow, both freestanding systems, and or, you know, panels to the ceilings, where required.

Our extent we have extension panels, options for LiteBarrier and RealWall, that will extend the walls up to eighteen feet high.

And our new StackBarrier wall system was specifically engineered, to create freestanding walls up to thirty two feet high, maybe even higher, with only, top of wall kickers so that the wall structure itself, it has enough strength to not require any framing or any additional bracing.

Regarding noise, you know, reducing disruption, during renovation often means reducing the noise. You know, hammering, cutting metal, demolition noise, you know, cutting floors, you know, or just the general noise commotion behind the walls from all the guys talking and swearing at each other. So, I mean, our wall systems cut this noise level in half, lessening the impact on everyone near the construction zone.

With physical security, again, we're talking about keeping occupied spaces safe in and around the construction zone. So our walls are engineered again for maximum impact resistance. We saw that, stability and access control.

And with access control, you know, we're big on meeting your needs, for hard door hardware. We're the only provider of temporary wall systems that offer a wide variety of class two hardware, industry standard equipment, including lever handles, electronic and mechanical keypads, small and large format core interchangeability, and solutions for key card access.

And finally, just to touch again about our, testing and our certification.

When you think about fire safety engineering, again, we intersect, certifies all of our products to meet the e eighty four class a standard and FireblockWall to the e one one nine standard, both of which are the highest fire standards for interior building materials.

And, again, we're unique, and we we do this, work. The only way to know, that the product you buy is certified is to look at the label, that should be on the product, that includes the name, the test standard, and the listing agency mark. Again, UL, IterTech, ETL, CSA, CE, whatever.

And that label will be required to be on the product.

Some will claim they're certified, but the only way to know is really just to look for that label. So hope that all was informative. And, now we're gonna introduce, Bob Romano and, you talk a little about his experiences. Bob?

Thank you, Bruce. My name is Bob Romano. I've been with Nelson HPS, last few years. We do predominantly healthcare work, so the panels have been amazing to work with for us. Next slide.

For us, what difference I mean, when I broke in, everything was two by fours in plywood or drywall.

And it was messy. It was, hard to put up. It's difficult to use. And then when I came over to Nelson HPS, I was introduced to the STARC system, and I couldn't believe how easy it was.

It goes in fast, and it was a game changer for me.

There's a few different things that make it advantageous, and I'd like to get into that right now. Next slide.

Number one, it looks amazing. This is actually my project here at Hoag Hospital in Irvine. This is a containment we put up while the kitchen was in use.

It's airtight and it looks great.

The nice thing about this project, we were actually behind this STARC wall, cutting out CMU with a wet saw, and the kitchen was still in use because the sound attenuation is so good.

And again, it looks fantastic. Next slide.

It goes in so easily. I joked when we were doing the rundown for this, we could probably put the STARC wall up behind this woman, she wouldn't know it because it's so quiet, easy. There's no dust when it goes in. There's no vacuum you needed after when you're done. And it's just really amazing.

When we first put in, I couldn't believe how easy it was. Again, we could easily put up a hundred feet of this in an hour, and again, without any disruption to anyone. And when you come in, you look very professional. You come in with a aluminum A frame, the panels are ready to go, and there's nothing else you need to do. There's no finish you need to add to it. It's finished already, and the panels look amazing when you're done. Next slide.

I just joked that this was me before I lost the weight, and I'm feeling much better now.

But the the we actually put us up very similar to this for the Physicians Lounge here at Hogue. They wanted something that looked great, but something they could use for a couple of years that will be bulletproof, wouldn't need any sort of maintenance or anything like that. And we use that for the physician's lunch, and it looks amazing.

Again, there's no cleanup necessary when you're done. There's no vacuuming. You don't have to do any of that. Next slide.

For me in healthcare, ICRA is number one. I just finished a project in San Diego down in Grossmont Hospital, and I did the OR renovations.

The first part of it, we were able to use the one hour wall.

It was my first introduction to STARC. Well, I walked up and was like, It looks like there's a Mercedes Benz parked in the hallway. This is amazing. I was very impressed with it.

And so was the hospital. The hospital liked what we did. They liked our ability to change and massage the infection control when we needed to. They needed more access for something.

It's very easily reconfigurable, And I really appreciated that about it. It exceeds all of the ICRA four and five recommendations, and it easily necessitates the negative air panels because you have to maintain negative air inside of the infection control.

So absolutely. And that's on a daily basis.

Next slide.

Thanks, Bob. I appreciate that input there. That was great.

Just like to tell everybody we're at the point in the webinar where we take questions from the audience. If you have any questions for Chris, Bruce, or Bob, please load them into the questions box now.

Let's see.

Just give this a minute for people to get questions in. If everybody wants to turn on their cameras, that's great. Thank you. You're you're ahead of me here.

Let's see.

Okay. So first question from Craig.

You mentioned I'm not sure who this is directed to. You mentioned attaching the top of STARC wall to a t grid ceiling system.

Can it also be used with gypsum board or plastic ceilings?

Yeah. Absolutely.

The brackets, that are part of our grid clip system have an integrated, clamp that would go on a t bar. But any one of those brackets, you could just disassemble that clamp and then you just have a bracket with a slot in it that you can drive a screw or any fastener, through that, into, you know, hard ceiling, or some other type of, you know, structure, roof deck, or whatever it is, plastic.

Right. And there's a question for Chris here. Chris, if I don't have the budget to buy STARC panels, is there a way to rent if I don't or or is there a way to rent if I don't have room to store them?

That's a great question. We have now a, we got a couple of auctions. First and foremost, we do have a national exclusive arrangement with a company called Sunbelt Rentals, who has certain locations across the country. And if those aren't available, we've got regional renters like Bob's company, Nelson HBS in Southern California, who will also accommodate. So all you need to do is contact us, and we'll connect you with the right service provider as well as, you know, be prepared to have drawings and same specs so they can generate a quote on your behalf.

Great. And, Bruce, question, are all STARC panels fire rated?

Yes. So all of our panels are, certified against the e eighty four standard and fire block, to also the, e one one nine one hour, standard.

Yeah. Great. And, Chris, can you apply graphics to STARC panels?

Absolutely.

What what we recommend is you contact your local marketing agency of the company, and vinyl graphics work great over our panels. All four kinds, by the way.

Excellent.

I have a question for Bob here. Folks, just as a reminder, if you have questions for Chris, Bruce, or Bob, please load them into the questions box.

Here's another one.

Is there an ideal way to transport in order to get full life expectancy? That's for Mary.

Yes.

STARC actually sells, aluminum a frames that you can strap all the panels to, and they're easily transferable on rollers, on wheels.

And, it looks great pulling up with it. Like I said, they're all clean and neat and impregnable and wonderful. And, yeah, that's how we do it. They they fit in the back of my pickup truck, strap them down, and we're good to go.

Yeah. Anything you wanna add to that, Chris or Bruce?

Well, I I think it should be noted, and Bob already knows this, but the wheels are certainly hospital floor friendly as well. So, the casters are are amazing, high quality.

Everything about the product is high quality, I have to say. It really is.

Including Bruce?

We we engineered thanks, Chris. We engineered the system specifically, to also reduce dunnage. So our transport cart is actually the same cart we use for shipping. So your product is loaded on these a frame carts, and then we add some blocking and a cardboard wrapper, so that when you receive it, all you have to do is not pull off the wrapper, recycle that, and then knock off the blocking and wheel it away.

And then for subsequent transport or, you know, mobilization, again, reload the panels on the cart. They're all designed with integral protective, strips and elements to keep them from, you know, rubbing on each other.

Strap them down, and then put them back in a truck, to move to the next location. So it's all done.

Must have to the bottom of the a frame has the rubber gaskets too to protect the sides of the of the panels themselves.

It's well it's well engineered.

Right.

Let's see. Bob, a question for you. So the, there's been a STARC emphasizes for usability.

Can you comment on how often you've been able to reuse the panels?

Like, over and over and over. When we're done with them, like I said, we did concrete cutting on the inside of our containment. We wiped it down with, little soap and water, and they were good to go again. We just set them up again yesterday in the HUI kitchen to bisect the kitchen so that we're ready to do some demo on the other side of it now.

That's just from from day to day. We they're incredibly reusable, and, they're kind of impregnable. Like I said, the the picture I showed you inside the kitchen, that's inside the kitchen. With they've been banging that thing with carts and and food trays and stuff like that, and it looks great still.

This is a month end. So I'm very, very pleased with the with the project product.

Excellent. Question from Theresa. Are there any special cleaning requirements, any cleaners or disinfectants that we should stay away from?

Yeah. You wanna stay away from organic solvents, you know, MEK and toluene and stuff like that. The sort of the nasty stuff you wanna use anyway. But all conventional, cleaning products that are used in either sanitary environments or, you know, health care or wherever, are perfectly safe to use are on against our metal surfaces.

Right. Question from William. Can your products be utilized something like a warehouse application, open structure, ceiling around bar joists, metal decking, etcetera, higher heights such as twenty to twenty five feet?

Yep. So that's that's our StackBarrier product. So that was, again, engineered specifically for atriums and and, you know, warehouses and manufacturing or, again, tall, tall spaces like casinos and airports.

So, yeah, specifically, again, you know, build the walls up, to the deck. You can then cope and cut the top panels, to fit around bar joists or plumbing or whatever, or then or switch over to a, plastic sheet, to do that coping and fitting.

But, again, the the the wall can stand all by itself, with simple connections at the top of the wall, thirty two, forty feet or whatever, without any supplemental bracing.

We have another question from Mary here. She's been tasked to compare STARC's product with your competitors.

What is the one key issue that will help me sell your product from a budget standpoint to our leadership?

If I may, I would I would lead off with durability.

You saw the data that Bruce presented associated with a significant percentage of our customers are getting over fifty uses, with our panels. That that translates into approximately five dollars a lineal foot cost.

And then get back to the contribution of profitability.

The efficiency and the reuse of that, as you continue if you're a contractor, you continue to charge for temporary containment, so the profitability is maintained. But the best part is the reliability and durability of the product. It's just gonna last so long for you. You're gonna get the most value for your dollar.

K. A question from Arlene. Can the product withstand chlorine dioxide gas decontamination? That's a Bruce question. I'm thinking.

Yeah. That's that's beyond me. I haven't heard I haven't heard that one. Okay. I apologize.

So TB decided, I guess, or determined.

They had a chemist on the board.

Okay. Let me just, let's see.

Again, if anybody has any questions, we are ahead on time, so feel free to load them into the question box.

What we should add for Mary regarding the chlorine dioxide is to reach us directly, and we can do some homework on her behalf. I think it was Mary who asked that question.

Marlene.

Marlene. I'm sorry, Marlene. Yeah. Submit that question to us directly, and we're gonna do some homework on your behalf.

Excellent. Thank you, Chris. Let's see. Do we have any products suitable for an extended exterior application?

Yeah. Again, StackBarrier is a product that was engineered again specifically to be non hydroscopic.

So therefore moisture, humidity, will not affect it. We infected mold testing on it, mold growth testing on it.

You know, the the it's a, right now it's a aluminum, outer skins on both sides, so very weatherable.

And, again, with our bracing options and our and our guides, you know, the it is suitable for exterior applications.

And that looks like it's it for questions. We do have a little time left. Is there anything, maybe go around to one key takeaway you'd like people to leave this session with?

Chris?

Well, you know, we're fortunate as a company. Bruce and I have been here since day one, and we've got multiple customers like Bob and Nelson HPS around the country that we could have selected for this particular exercise who have tremendous amount of satisfaction with the product. We're grateful that Bob came on board and we're just so fortunate to have faithful, loyal customers like Bob around the country. And, can't say enough about him, so we're grateful.

And, Bruce, how about you? Yeah.

I I think it's again, we offer a lot of value to customers because of our diversity of product. We have really different products to fit different situations, and so we're able to meet, you know, the majority of customers' needs right out of the box depending on their situation.

So, again, RealWall for, you know, a longer lasting, more durable product that's, has great sound attenuation or you go to LiteBarrier fast, quick, and efficient.

StackBarrier, you know, gets us tall spaces, gets us outside, gets us in a lot of different scenarios that we hadn't been able to be efficient at it before. And then FireblockWall again for, one hour rated, containment. So we we've got a wide range of solutions to be able to help you out with.

K. And, Bob, let's, close out with you. You're the the guy in the field actually using STARC products. So what would you like other contractors to know about them?

Well, I had the pleasure to have used three out of the four, Bruce. I've used the LiteBarrier, RealWall, and the the one hour, barrier. I remember. They were all fantastic.

They like I said, they go in quickly. They look amazing. It it makes my job so much easier to present such a professional image and a professional, ICRA in containment that people don't question my my abilities.

Something professional has to be going on behind these. Right? It's it makes my job that much and, again, it's just it's impregnable. I don't have to do any maintenance on it.

You can crash things into it. You can't do that with drywall. It would be a maintenance nightmare to try to do that. And it's strong as hell.

Put it up incredibly fast. I just can't say enough good things about it. And what I like when people oh, can you wait. Wait.

Wait. Can you change it? Absolutely. What would you like me to do? The nurse can can you make this on an angle?

Can you do sure. No problem. We we can do that in fifteen minutes. And the customer is thrilled that we we have that ability to do whatever they want.

It's it's really, really good stuff. I I really appreciate the product, and it's it's made my job easier.

Well, thank you, Bob. That's great to hear. We always love hearing that kind of feedback from from people in the field.

I wanna take, just thank our three speakers for all the great information that they shared with us today, and thanks to everybody for joining our call. We hope you found this presentation valuable. Look for a copy of the recording and the slide deck in your email. Also, be sure to check the STARC blog at STARCsystems.com for more information on a wide variety of topics related to commercial construction and renovations.

Thanks again for joining us today. We appreciate you being here and hope you have a great day. Thanks, everyone.

Bye, everybody. Thanks, everybody. Bye bye.